Handtops, UMPC - What would you do?

What would you do?
handtops.com forums : OQO : talk about the OQO

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07/27/07 + J

What would you do as a board member of OQO?

A. Go with Via Technologies 65nm Isaiah CPU core for Model 03 during the Fall of 2008
B. Go with Intel's 45nm Silverthorne CPU core for Model 03 during the Fall of 2008

I would go with choice A. Keep the relationship with Via flowing. They can use a life preserver and were there before UMPCs became hip. Who knows if there will be any cost savings to switch to Intel. Although, Intel has a habit of dumping & is trying to kill Via by taking its sweet time with licensing negotiations.

In 2009 however, AMD has got some great IP with Bobcat. 2 CPU cores, 2 DX10 cores, integrated DDR3, and PCIe2.0 controllers on a single 45nm die for under 10 watts ???? Yummy... Intel's Nehalem is hot, but I don't think it's as cool as Bobcat. The ATI aquisition just may be the X factor. If I was on the board, I'd sniff around & see what AMD's cooking.

Replies

07/27/07 + MeanSquare

I think I'd take a serious look again at the "philosophy" behind the OQO. So far, OQO has gone with the strategy of producing the smallest possible device that can run Windows with some facility. At present, the OQO sacrifices some performance to keep the size as small as possible. They'll probably want to stick with that philosophy, but there are some folks who'd like them to come up with something with a little more power, even if they have to sacrifice a little in size in order to achieve it.

Once you have the philosophy down, you can look at the offerings and see which one make the most sense to that end. Intel seems to be the performance leader at this stage, but that could change with AMD's offering. You also have to consider drivers. One of the reasons the Intel-based UX does as well as it does is due to the Intel drivers for the graphics chip.

Recent Blog: MeanSquare's Review of the Sony UX (with comparison to OQO)

07/27/07 + J

U R spot on w/ the heady approach. "A little more power" is relative and is becoming more irrelavent. My opinion...

Jory predicted that CPU manufacturers were "a few years away" in tnkgrl's interview last year. Now that the big guns are focused on the handtop market, I honestly believe Model 03 and beyond will not have to sacrifice generally accepted performance levels with option A or B . Only the outliers will bitch. The gap between 2008 & 2009 CPU/GPU offerings will be as wide as the Grand Canyon negating performance as an issue even further. Mix in SSDs with normal battery tech improvements and you have a recipe for a surprise. Most people still don't expect much from even this generation of hantops.

So, with performance out of the way, I think OQO's philosophy will adjust -design elegance. It will be similar to Apple's. Via's tech is just a stepping stone to AMD's design elegance. This is the only philosphy that will justify fat margins while competition drives down the price of chips. They may even have to break out another SKU to satisfy calls for the $700 UMPC.

07/29/07 + tchernev

I think it is about time for OQO to dramatically improve their quality control - the number of RMA's that people have to deal with (see the OQOtalk forum threads) for things that should have never been let to market is just unbelievable... The choice of next processor, although important to some, is somewhat secondary IMHO.

07/30/07 + educationk12

There may not be an 03 if Apple, Sony, etc. come out with something revolutionary.

07/30/07 + scoobie

Next years CES and CEBITs should be interesting to see what the manufacturers are planning to do with Intel's new chip.

edited: Jul 30 2007 + educationk12

Next years processor chips are great, but there is great potential to bring a Sony UX390n to market the size of the OQO or smaller with the current Intel U processors & SSD drive. Sony designed the UX based on spinning drives. The 32gb drive is one third the thickness of the one in the OQO and it takes up nearly half the space inside!

What I'd like to see (never ever thought I'd say this) is a iphone like keyboard on a 4 to 5" screen. The OQO keyboard is not good for your hands regardless of what that quack says in that use it or lose it book. We aren't designed to do this no more than those who get Crackberry thumbs. The iphone keyboard is brilliant and would do well on a larger screen. Thus getting rid of the space the keyboard takes up and combine that an ultra thin SSD...well, it'd make the OQO look primative IMO.

And it could come out today as everything but the software design is available. I never ever thought I'd say this but if we can get an iphone keyboard on one of these devices then I'd be really glad to see the keyboard disappear. Your hands will thank you in time that is for sure. I even went to a doctor to address this keyboard issue...it's not healthy to use the OQO for long periods of time. We just weren't designed for such!

07/30/07 + Tekara

No problems here with my OQO and I get a lot of use out of it, at least 4-6 hours a day since I got it several weeks ago. The non-tactile keyboard on the iPhone is a pain, the lack of feedback really slows me down.

edited: Jul 30 2007 + educationk12

Interesting. I find it faster to touch type than I do to have to press a button down....plus it can be done with one hand leaving the other hand free to multi-task, but in a iUMPC it'd be a two thumb typing which would be faster than one thumb. I agree that tactile is KING as the UX390n button keyboard was awful, yet the iPhone is different...the letters that enlarge when you touch it, I've gotten quite fast at typing with the iPhone...text messaging mainly. I suspect people are more use to button designs as nearly every phone and UMPC has button key/thumbboard, but a two thumb touch type design like the iphone seems ideal for more than just speed.

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I'd like to see a device that is about the size the OQO 01 yet thinner without the need to move the screen up meaning you could get rid of a large screen frame (if you had an 01 you could technically put a full 5.6" XGA screen on if if you designed the border like the iphone). Get rid of the spinning drive. Make it HSDPA/Voice/GPS and if there was a real UMPC OS then you could make it fanless/always on in your pocket device.

But in reality...the BIGGEST problem with UMPC devices is they are Windows XP/Vista based which aren't CPU friendly even for the fastest of Intel U processors. To me even the UX390n was slow for Vista. Microsoft has proven yet again that each generation of their OS is going to require massive power/energy to run it and rightfully so as you can create amazing applications with a zillion-core computer....so soon to come we will have dual-core in an oqo-like device...yippy, we can turn it on for a few hours and turn it off when in pocket. I want an always on UMPC device.

What UMPC really needs is a FULLY functional OS that doesn't have all the junk in it. Which is what Apple did with the iPhone, yet they would need to make a OSX that was much more compatible with the full OSX. Same with Windows Mobile 6 & Vista.

What I think we need are fanless UMPC devices, but unfortunately I think the idea for Apple/Microsoft is to make an OS one-size-fits-all. I'd love to put the UMPC in my pocket with it turned on all day long, but the current philosophy behind UMPC seems to be...let's make it a smaller notebook...it's not a notebook, a notebook is something you generally power down when mobile and put it in something, a UMPC is something you put in your pocket and take out whenever you have the need. Making a device you can't put in your pocket while turned on is not mobile, nor is a loud fan pushing out hot air. Putting it on standby or hibernation means your internet is off which means you are "away" to the world when really you'd like to be "present"...I mean that's what I like about the iPhone is I get my email/text messages and anything else I am signed up with such as myspace instantly 24/7...not need to power up and sign back in to see if you have anything new going on in your world.

I'm just saying there is a gap between the iphone and oqo that I'd love to see merged...keep the keyboard devices for those who prefer it...sure there will be many who prefer button keyboards, but I suspect there are a lot of people who want true 24/7 mobility....not 2/7 mobility.

At least that's what I would do if I had the means to design such a device...but I don't...I can only hope for such a device. To me faster processors will make the device more notebook like, yet get rid of the U in the UMPC...they are MPC...nothing ultra about 2/7 connectivity.

07/30/07 + wogaut

Tekara said: "No problems here with my OQO and I get a lot of use out of it, at least 4-6 hours a day since I got it several weeks ago. The non-tactile keyboard on the iPhone is a pain, the lack of feedback really slows me down."

Same here, and I also hate to see my fingerprints on the screen...

edited: Jul 30 2007 + educationk12

wogaut,

I hate fingerprints, too. Fingerprints don't show up on the iphone like they do on other non-glass devices. It is amazingly resistant to such...however putting it up to your phone to use as a phone causes oil to get on the phone, yet due to it being a glossy glass, you simply white it off onto any cotton material, it comes off in two seconds and you are good to go. However, my fingertips seem to be dry as sometimes I have to wet them in order to get notebook's touchpad to recognize my finger, so maybe I am just lucky in that regard....although my skin is pretty much normal but either touchpads have issues or my fingers have issues...probably I have issues. ;)

I'm not excited about a more powerful 9 watt processor as it means more of the same. That's half the total power consumption of the OQO 02, which means more of the same in terms of battery life, heat/fan issues, pocketability, etc. Getting rid of the spinning drive would shed 1.5 watts, but you'd still have the same portability issues with the oqo.

I frequent public auctions...it's more of a hobby than anything else but I have a geeky approach to it, which is the primary use for my OQO. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth the $4k I spent on it and the accessories. It works very well for looking up the value of items instantly via a SQL Server program & a IE7/Firefox, etc. browser...I'm trying to get a reliable WWAN inside it....which I suspect will end up being Rev A/GPS embedded EVDO chip. I may end up using it as GPS w/ traffic S&T 08, so it could work as a navigation device.

My problem is I need a device where I can have the internet access 24/7, yet with the speed of broadband in a small portable device, a efficient keyboard along without needing to carry around a dozen batteries....at times I wonder if an "ultra portable" 2 pound notebook with 12 hours of battery life such as the ones on dynamism would be more ideal for my application...I just wish they weren't 10 to 12" in size, but using a laptop at an auction draws too much attention...an OQO looks more like a pda.

Maybe ecsk2 is right...maybe a pda is what I need....I just ordered the htc x7501, which sounds a lot like what I kinda just described above so I guess that rambling helped me. I think it might be what I really need...hopefully WM6 won't disappoint too much.

08/23/07 + Miggwilson

I love the Model 02. It's worked great for me so far. As for an 03...Laptop Magazine sent out a survey which I would guess is sponsored by OQO since it covers questions relating to the UMPC market and specifically the OQO model. They asked what features we would like to see...some of the boxes for checking included...a camera...a GPS...etc. The next version is likely to have some nice upgrades. I hope my 02 lasts a good long time before I consider bumping to an 03 or 04 (unless they come up with a good trade in and up plan).

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