Handtops, UMPC - FlipStart Future As They State It

FlipStart Future As They State It
handtops.com forums : FlipStart PC : talk about the FlipStart PC

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03/15/08 + cnewtonne

I purchased my FS from Vulcan directly and I was probably the last one who did. I called their support site and asked about the reason behind their sudden price drop. The support person seemed very knowledgeable about the company and product. He stated there is a new FS in the works for which he declined to provide any details. He thought it might be available in 2008. I asked him specifically if the company is going out of business, but he adamantly invalidated the idea. He thought the company is doing good and is here to stay.

This is what he told me, for whatever it is worth.

Thank you

Replies

03/20/08 + wodin

mhoepfin said: "I can't remember if Verizon now allows Sprint devices on it's network, but if it does you can also use the built-in Sprint Rev A EVDO WWAN."

Verizon Wireless made a lot of noise a few months ago about they were going to activate all “compatible” devices. But when your read the fine print about what’s “compatible”; don’t hold your breath.

03/20/08 + wodin

tnkgrl said: "Just FYI the largest 1.8" 5 mm (single platter) PATA HDD is currently 80 GB - the largest 1.8" 5 mm PATA SSD is currently 64 GB."

And those 64 GB SSDs would cost how many thousands of dollars?

edited: Mar 20 2008 + tnkgrl

@wodin about $1K. That's what it costs as an option on the MacBook Air and on several other laptops.

There are also 1.8" 5 mm SATA storage devices available - the largest ones are 100 GB (HDD) and 64 GB (SSD). The 100 GB HDD model was announced but may (or may not) be shipping yet.

There are more options in the thicker 1.8" 8 mm form factor.

Recent Blog: Bluetooth hack for the Asus 701 (Eee)

03/20/08 + rr0123

heavyharmoni said: "
Does the FS 30GB drive come partitioned in any way?"

Nope

03/20/08 + ecsk2

cnewtonne said: "He thought the company is doing good and is here to stay. "

...wonder how long HE is there to stay now...

03/23/08 + Joshua

Eee falls into some serious traps, IMO, but I don't think it's at all a "disaster" engineering-wise, just not even remotely comparable to FlipStart. For a start, Eee is built very much to a price, the keys are cheap, the screen is - let's be honest - pretty horrible and wouldn't look out of place on a 1994 PowerBook, and the storage is woefully inefficiently arranged from the factory. I understand why they have done things this way, but I consider it poor product planning if you have "customised" an OS to work on a device, but the dialogue boxes still exceed the screen boundaries.

We used to work on 640 x 480 displays without this sort of issue, so it's purely lazy development.

FlipStart runs real applications, the lack of storage (now easily addressed) is the main drawback. From a market point of view I think it just lacked a certain... 'sexy' factor; having used OQO I can tell you that sexy didn't translate in that case. I'm quite inspired, personally, by the industrial design of the Nokia E90 as a method of making a previously "workmanlike" device quite atttractive. Ultimately though, I think that the real issue has been one of the market not being mature yet.

I've got an Eee because I wanted to know what the fuss was about; I think it's irritating. And the 9" model? The instant the Eee crosses into the "cheap laptop" market, it's not appealing. I might want the Eee form factor, but the Eee's USP isn't the size, it's the price - there are plenty of Eee-sized proper PC laptops out there, they just cost 5x as much, and no-one wants them. People will forgo that size advantage for financial reasons, and I reckon the 9" Eee at the Ł300-400 prices I expect it to sit at is going to fall far from the success of the Ł200 models. Ł200, I can't get much. Ł400? I can get Core 2 Duo cheapies from Dell, with screens that fit modern apps, real amounts of storage...

Eee's battery life is dreadful, too. The physical volume of the pack and the lack of HD should allow a vastly greater life with better technology.

Of more interest is the Ł99 Elonex ONE. If we're going to drop to "around 700MHz" with a very heavy and inefficient Linux distro (remember how much work we used to get done on, say, Pentium 266 laptops with 4GB HDs? The Eee is no miracle of efficiency), and then settle for "well, it's okay as a net and note-taking machine", how are we going to deal with a 300MHz Code-8 CPU and half the storage and RAM, in the same screen real estate? I think the ONE, at Ł99, will be more than half an Eee in terms of functional capability for half the price.

Also, the ONE has bluetooth as an option.

Eee with 9" screen and 8GB for Ł250ish? Yes please. But not at the mooted prices. It's not worth it. And unlike people bleating that the $699 FlipStart "lacked a 64GB SSD", I think that the Eee CAN have that spec at that price very soon, if SSD prices continue to fall.

The ONE is available for pre-order, btw - Ł10, then either Ł99 or Ł119 for the machine. The pre-order fee is used for shipping.

03/25/08 + rr0123

Joshua said: " but the Eee's USP isn't the size, it's the price - there are plenty of Eee-sized proper PC laptops out there, they just cost 5x as much, and no-one wants them. "

It seems to me it's a combination of both size and price. Dell regularly has $500 bargain basement laptops, but they are big and heavy.

03/25/08 + tnkgrl

@Joshua, I agree with you that the Asus Eee's (7") screen is poor, and the battery life is so-so (I'm getting around 2 hours with WiFi and my Bluetooth mod enabled)...

However I disagree with you about the keyboard - I think it is good for its size. Also, the Asus Eee is well built and the motherboard/parts are similar in quality to most (much larger and pricier) laptops I've taken apart!

Recent Blog: Bluetooth hack for the Asus 701 (Eee)

03/25/08 + Joshua

tnkgrl - keys are cheap doesn't mean it's a poor keyboard, it means I think they're cheaply made. The black one looks like it'll be a "guess the letter" model in no time, unlike the illuminated, double-injection-moulded or rather well painted ones on FlipStart etc. Mac backlit keys are useless in terms of longevity too; I think MacBook Pros have "cheap" keyboards.

It is quite well made - for the price. Look at kids' toys. Good plastic isn't that hard to obtain, it's the engineering that counts - and with less mechanical componentry to house, it's easier to make it solid. Give the Eee drive bays/optical drives, hard disks to house, larger processor cooling hardware, and it'd be considerably harder to build as well within the same phystical constraints without moving to different materials. Hence the use of magnesium alloy chassis in higher-end "subnotebooks".

I mention kids' toys for a reason. The Eee and the Elonex ONE have a market which in the UK, they don't seem to be targeting as effectively as I'd thought they might - devices like the Vtech learning computer. You know the things; some unknown 8 or 16 bit core, perhaps as much power as an original Palm Pilot or high-end Rex, a low-quality monochrome or "colour" LCD, perhaps 2.5 or 3" in a 10-13" sized housing, no real interfaces or ports, and priced at Ł60-120. Ł120 will now (June) get the 300MHz, 7", LinOS based Elonex ONE, itself a variant (almost certainly) of the A150-something that I've forgotten the name of (Taiwanese computer-in-a-bag with an x86 cloned CPU board and similar spec and design, right down to the rubber keyboard).

03/25/08 + jkkmobile

i don't agree at all!

I don't get how the Eee screen is poor? If you mean the resolution, i understand that for some use it is not enaugh.. but for mobile use it is good.

.. I get easy 3 + hours with wifi or hsdpa..

The quality and design is actually better than in some other umpcs/laptops.. white one may feel cheaper but black one feells just like ibm thinkpads i have. The keyboard is the same as in 3000$ flybook..

I don't see SSD on Eee as a cheap way to make it, I see it as a robust and reliable media, just what i want on my mobile computer.

It's ok if someone dont "get it " , but different devices are made for different uses, for my use, Eee is the best one. ( accessing info from web )
Sometimes less is more.

I can't say much about their linux build, as i have xp pro on mine..

.. i have tested all umpc etc devices smaller than 8.9 inches and for mobile computing ( not for storing company data etc. which you shouldn't do anyway ) it is really good.

03/25/08 + wodin

tnkgrl said: "the Asus Eee is well built and the motherboard/parts are similar in quality to most (much larger and pricier) laptops I've taken apart!
"

I'd be sorely disappointed if the MB was not top notch. After all, Asus is first and foremost a manufacturer of motherboards.

03/25/08 + tnkgrl

@wodin That was exactly the point I was trying to make in response to @Joshua

@jkkmobile I love my Eee! But I find the screen of the (7") Eee poor because of it's small size, low resolution and low brightness... My battery life is about 2 to 2+ hours in Windows XP with WiFi & Bluetooth and brightness set to max.

Recent Blog: Bluetooth hack for the Asus 701 (Eee)

03/25/08 + ecsk2

tnkgrl said: ". My battery life is about 2 to 2+ hours in Windows XP with WiFi & Bluetooth and brightness set to max."

You went back to Windows!?!? Why?

I've considered it as I no longer have any Win laptop and at times would need it but have decided that one of the things making me love the EEE is lack of Win

edited: Mar 25 2008 + tnkgrl

@ecks2 Better Bluetooth support.

Admitedly, I have yet to play with XUbuntu, but Xandros was not for me.

Recent Blog: Bluetooth hack for the Asus 701 (Eee)

03/26/08 + Joshua

@jkkmobile - Eee stuff!

1: Keyboard - action is fine, layout is good, material quality is dreadful. I personally find the white one nicer (and like the texture of the white case) than the black one, because in poorly lit areas the black keyboard is barely readable and I adapt between 10-15 keyboard layouts regularly (I like old computers a bit ;) ). Sometimes I have to check! The printed characters look very much like the ones on my old Dells which wore off. Double Injection Moulding - where the key legend is moulded through the key itself - is my standard for a not-cheap keyboard if the mechanism is working fine.

2: Screen - yes, it's fine for mobile applications, but the OS and apps have not been tailored for it. The minute I have to alt-drag to click "okay" on a dialogue box in a provided application, then the development of the software has been insufficient. Also the screen is not terribly good in terms of colour; it lacks a certain quality. It's fine at the price, but it lags behind the visual quality of some smartphones. Which cost considerably more than an Eee. I feel quite safe in saying the screen isn't very good, because you get what you pay for.

3: SSD/price. I think that SSD is a choice of both price AND simplicity. Engineering to house an HDD costs money. An HDD also introduces mechanical weakness and probably a degree of unreliability. HDD is what most UMPC makers have gone with, and for example, I'd never be walking past my room with the FlipStart and throw it onto the bed because I'm done with it - I feel totally happy doing that with the Eee. I really rather like the SSD, but I see it as a price AND engineering solution, one that works very nicely.

At Ł200/$400, the Eee 4GB (and let's face it, the 8GB would be nice there but they're not easily available here most of the time) is fantastic value and a very "aptly" engineered product. At Ł400, where the 9"/12GB model is likely to sit, it's going to be up against Ł329 Celeron-M or Ł429, Core 2 Duo, 160GB, 2GB RAM Dells and the like, which may not be the sort of thing you can throw around - but I also might be less keen on throwing a Ł400 Eee, too

I'm not saying they compete on size, but in terms of "the average customer" they DO compete for mindshare as a cheap laptop. No-one really pitches the Eee as "super-robust, small laptop of curiously 'right' design", they say "ASUS launches $200 laptop!". It's about marketing and mindshare. We're intelligent users, we (for example) got what FlipStart was about, which obviously many people did not. We also see past the marketing "blurb" of the Eee.

I think Asus would be better served either allowing the 701 to die and the 901 to drop into the $200-400 bracket as "technology advances" - i.e. give users a 4GB Surf 9" and 8 or 12GB variants at the upper end; or allow the 701 to evolve with larger memory, and introduce an "Eee-Pro", taking the good form factor, the 9" screen (ideally one of better quality, please), better CPU (I'm very curious about the processor in the MacBook Air) and "tolerable" SSD storage. Not a huge amount, maybe 32GB, with the SD card slot still. Pitch it at MacBook money.

Hardware doesn't cost the earth. Research and Development, making the product good, costs. If Apple had developed the Eee, the hardware would not be much different; but you'd never have to alt-drag a dialogue box - this is where I feel Xandros/Linux is a lost opportunity, because modifying/customising the apps to actually fit the screen is not an impossible task. People have developed web-browsers for Linux devices with 320 x 240 displays - just a little customisation would make the Eee into an absolutely stunning consumer product, without removing the ability for users to do whatever they want with it. Mine's running dcraw/ufraw and GIMP for looking at/converting RAW files.

What I'm really curious about is the little screwhole/bracket under the rear-right USB port, the one beside the video port. It's like they planned an accessory that could be "attached"; perhaps an extremely low-profile bluetooth module?

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