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04/29/08
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Orgwon
Please tell me what you would like to see in the next FlipStart. The sky is the limit, don't think about what limitations there are on current technologies. Just tell me your PERFECT UMPC... Also, what would you do away with on the 1.0 and why.
Let's get the obvious out of the way:
* More RAM
* Faster CPU and GPU
* More strorage / SDD
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05/02/08
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pierro78
from link :
Over All Passmark rating for the OQO M2 with, I believe, a 1.6 Ghz VIA C7 = 115.5 Composite Average
Over All Passmark Rating for the flipstart = 185.9 Composite Average
05/03/08
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mhoepfin
Those passmark ratings are interesting. I can tell you from experience that the Pentium M on the FS makes all the difference vs. the VIA. On the OQO you can tell when it's working because of the fan, and as we know on the FS, it just keeps on trucking...
05/03/08
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Nobody99
Indeed, the Pentium M makes a huge difference and because of it I use my Flipstart for a lot of gaming. I had no plans of using my Flipstart for gaming at all. It is a shame many of the other great feature filled UMPC's are let down by the feeble CPU. It even manages to run Half-Life 2!
Hopefully by the time I need to get a new UMPC, they will have got it right. Via is not viable for me.
05/05/08
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primaz
Simple make it functional so the mainstream wants to buy it. Thus they need to change it to a clamshell shape that is about 7" to 7.4" long with a good touch type keyboard NOT a thumb input, have it 3.6" to 4" in depth so it is narrow enough to fit in a jacket pocket, and keep the height 1" or less so it is not too bulky. You do not need to change much else as that is why nobody would buy one.
05/07/08
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SomeGuy23
With those dimensions, it sounds like you want a device similar in size to the HP Jornada 720 (7.4" x 3.7" x 1.3"). I had one of these years ago and while they keyboard was great for its size, it certainly wasn't big enough to be considered a "good touch type" keyboard. I don't think it is possible to put a good touch type keyboard on a device with a 6in or smaller screen.
I personally have found the thumbboard on the Flipstart to be more usable than the keyboard on the Jornada as it is designed to be used while you're holding the device. A touch type keyboard on the other hand requires the device to be on a flat surface (like a desk).
If Flipstart were going to make another UMPC (which sadly they're not), I'd get rid of the useless Infopain, bizzare external device connector (for the Flipstart camera), move the camera above the screen and significantly improve the WiFi reception (using MIMO and 802.11n).
05/07/08
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primaz
I used the HP as it has enough internal space to accomodate the Flipstart internals easier than a Psion? The HP Jornada 720 was one of the larger handhelds and while it did not have as easy of a touch type keyboard as the Psion 5mx it was still touch type input. I can type about 70% of desktop on it. I could do almost 85% on the Psion. Either way both the HP and Psion's keyboards are much more usable and functional for most people. People have not purchased thumb input full windows computers for the most part, even OQO sells very few after 8 years of marketing a thumb keyboard full windows computer.
The numbers reveal that while "someguy23" might like thumb keys on full windows, the mainstream thinks its a poor idea and will not buy it. There have been only 350k UMPC's sold in all of 2007. The OQO and the Flipstart in 07' I believe with a thumb input as most were pen input. Even OQO after all their marketing for 8 years can only sell about 8-15K a year. Compare that to the handhelds with touch type keyboards like the Psion, and Jornada 720's they sold ove 2.3 million each year. Thus Flipstart should have made it a true clamshell designed around a touch type 1/2 vga screen like the size of the Jornada. Changing camera position, finfopain, etc. would still result in what has happened to them death of an unpopular computer. Until a UMPC makes a touch type keyboard that is jacket size they are all likely to continue to die a slow death or a fairly quick death like Flipstart.
05/08/08
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SomeGuy23
The problem with the Psion 5mx and the Jornada 720 is that they both have very wide-aspect ratio screens (640x240!) which has allowed it to have the wide but not-very-deep dimensions. Windows XP/Vista would be next to useless on a small screen with a resolution of 1024x384 or 800x300. Unfortunately these days, you'd want at least 600 pixels vertically. I find the OQO's resolution of 800x480 can be annoying at times and even the Flipstart's 1024x600 can be restrictive.
The Flipstart and OQO don't sell well because they're both expensive and lets face it, when it comes to laptops, most consumers think "bigger is better". Most consumers would laugh at having to pay MORE for a smaller device. I doubt that the thumbboard is the cause of the problem, especially since touch-type UMPCs like the Kojinsha or VyePC haven't done very well either.
If you want a touch-typeable UMPC, look at the HTC Shift. IMHO, it combines both the advantages of a slider and a clamshell design in a unique form-factor. If only it wasn't so ridiculously expensive or under-powered.
edited: May 09 2008
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GadgetFreak
SomeGuy23 said: "The problem with the Psion 5mx and the Jornada 720 is that they both have very wide-aspect ratio screens (640x240!) which has allowed it to have the wide but not-very-deep dimensions. Windows XP/Vista would be next to useless on a small screen with a resolution of 1024x384 or 800x300. Unfortunately these days, you'd want at least 600 pixels vertically. I find the OQO's resolution of 800x480 can be annoying at times and even the Flipstart's 1024x600 can be restrictive.
The Flipstart and OQO don't sell well because they're both expensive and lets face it, when it comes to laptops, most consumers think "bigger is better". Most consumers would laugh at having to pay MORE for a smaller device. I doubt that the thumbboard is the cause of the problem, especially since touch-type UMPCs like the Kojinsha or VyePC haven't done very well either.
If you want a touch-typeable UMPC, look at the HTC Shift. IMHO, it combines both the advantages of a slider and a clamshell design in a unique form-factor. If only it wasn't so ridiculously expensive or under-powered."
You said it man!Forget the keyboard, bring down the price and ramp up the power. We want warp speed for next to nothing! Cell phones rule the world 'cause they are "free" and respond instantly!
05/09/08
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wodin
GadgetFreak said: "Cell phones rule the world 'cause they are "free" and respond instantly!" My HTC Touch is neither free nor does it respond instantly!
05/10/08
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snowviper
Same Here , my dopood isn't free and respond instantly, but I admit this is one tough mobile, It was run my motorcycle and only crack the lcd (internal is not hurt at all). But my dopood cost more than my FS.
edited: May 11 2008
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GadgetFreak
For the ordinary bloke, cell phone comes with contract, costs nothing in cash. Instant response because it's always on, in the pocket/purse ready to go. I dig handtops, but most will go for cell phones.
05/12/08
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primaz
"The Flipstart and OQO don't sell well because they're both expensive and lets face it, when it comes to laptops, most consumers think "bigger is better". Most consumers would laugh at having to pay MORE for a smaller device. I doubt that the thumbboard is the cause of the problem, especially since touch-type UMPCs like the Kojinsha or VyePC haven't done very well either."
The Flipstart is completely dead not due to price but due to it not being jacket pocket size and having a poor thumb input. The OQO sells a tiny bit more enough for them to survive but not be big as it is jacket pocket size but it too suffers from thumb input. People will pay more for mobility of it being small enough to carry in a large jacket pocket but only if it is functional. That is the key. Again everyone uses a touch type keyboard so that is what a UMPC must provide. A UMPC either 1/2 VGA would be very usable or if it was a small screen like the Samsung sphp 9200 or the Sharp D4. But it must have a touch type keyboard and right now probably windows XP as Vista seems to be tough for the mobile processors to handle. A HTC shift is nice but not narrow enough to fit in a jacket pocket and thus not attracting big numbers either.
A touch type keyboard is a must and so is jacket size when folded. Just look at the numbers, there has been no UMPC selling many units. It has very little to do with price and everything to do with functionality. If it is larger than a jacket pocket than you might was well buy a subnote book or laptop. If you can not type on what good is full windows? Again in all of 2007 how many UMPC's sold? a weak 350k including every single brand and model made worldwide.
05/12/08
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MeanSquare
Handtops are where laptops were a decade ago: You had to make allowances because of the small package and battery-life constraints. Upgrading was essentially impossible. The systems were considerably underpowered and considerably more expensive than their desktop counterparts. Only the people seriously in need of (or seriously in want of) portability were willing to make the allowance and pay the expense. Because of that they also represented only a small segment of the market so they didn't get much consideration either. That pretty well describes the situation handtops are in right now.
Will handtops follow the same trend as laptops, growing in market-share as handware makes it possible to make them closer in power and performance to their laptop/desktop counterparts? To some extent, that's already starting, but there are still real limitations imposed by screen size and input methods (especially the keyboard). Whether it's optimized touch control/input, real voice command and input, or something I haven't yet imagined, something needs to change in order to overcome those limitations before handtops will really take off.
05/13/08
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itslifejim
OK for what its worth...
- The InfoPane is a waste of space
- I would like the instant access of a PDA built into the flipstart same screen same keyboard, access to HD, SSD memory and devices, so I only have to boot up windows when I need to run a full application, if I just want to surf, run a WM application read email etc give me instant access over power - but i need that ability to run a full OS
- Size, the screen on the flipstart is great, not too big, not to small, reduce the size of the overall unit to match the screen size and you will be close to perfection (for me), a 7inch screen as used on most UMPCs are too big to fit in your pocket this is what put me off getting a Shift
- Keyboard, Psion5mx keys were great, backlit keys are essential - but make them red rather than blue. I use most of the custom keys with the exception of the 'ctrl,alt,del' custom key, I also like the jog dial, make this work on standard windows aps.
- Form Factor - move to flip and rotate screen with touch interface, this give me the best of both worlds, laptop and pad mode, while you are at it add in orientation sensing to rotate the scree as desired.
- Personally I don't use the webcam so this is a waste of space, power and money, the form factor is never going to be able to compete with a good camera or videocam.
- Add a card reader - CF slot with a (flush) plug in adapter so you can also use SD MMC etc.
- Make the HDD/SSD accessable so users can upgrade
- Make the memory accessable so users can upgrade
- Make the WAN accessable so users can choose a PCI-E card of their choice.
- Add GPS
- Make a proper docking station
- bundle software to sync with main PC, control from main PC, share with main PC
- make USB also work as a slave i.e. the flipstart HDD, and periferials become USB devices on your main PC
- think about the charger, it is small but why have bulky mains cable when you could just have a longer cable on the low voltage side, the way my blackberry does this is neat as you can plug into any international socket, remember to include a clip for keeping the cable tidy when not in use.
- some, way over-the-top cool features...
- include a smart pen, make a place in the unit to charge, transfer data and store the pen
- integrate a projector.
- include a wrist watch that works over bluetooth like a sideshow device, so I can read my email, listen to music, and place/answer calls from the watch (put all the tech in the flipstart and make the wrist device simply display what the flipstart tells it to.
- Oh and I'll have a ring that I can use as an input device and that can display scrolling text.
- did I mention the eyeball control for the mouse...
.. sure I missed something...
05/15/08
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primaz
Regarding handhelds in general, yes you will likely always have some level of price premium for their small pocket size and yes upgrades will likely always mean new devices due to the tight space you cram that technology. Handhelds back in their original era to me were when there was windows CE HPC handhelds. They were close to getting hug adoption until Microsoft ended the OS. During that time they sold 2-3 million units per year. What is preventing handhelds right now are there is really no true handheld. A handheld to me by definition should be a handheld version of a laptop; thus a touch type keyboard clamshell type of computer. There are really no such units short of the Sharp D4 in Japan later this year and the Samsung SPH p9200 only sold in Korea.
First of all we need OEM's to build a handheld. Today with the technology of these quasi mobile devices like the Flipstart and OQO they have proved the technology is here to build something the size of the handhelds of the 1990's that actually runs a desktop OS for the very first time! There has never been a true handheld that could perform and run what a laptop can. If that were the case I would definately see that segment take off and be a huge mainstream market. Yes they would always be a little more expensive and yes you still will need to upgrade new computers rather than internal components but the need for mobility to still make it popular to do so.
Once a true handheld is created that can run full windows, have a touch type keyboard, fit into a jacket pocket then you will see handhelds become big selling mainstream computers. Right now we have computers with inadequate input for full windows and many are not small enough to be a true mobile jacket size handheld.
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