Handtops, UMPC - LED Projectors by Mitsubishi, Samsung an

12/21/05 + AI

I posted a reply on the post link
But I thought it be appropriate to post it with a new title.

I have been keenly searching for Mitsubishi PocketProjector for the last six months and as most of us are perhaps aware that official release has also been postponed several times. From July to September, and now 19th Dec 2005. So I called up Mitsubishi and they regretted that it is still delayed.

Mitsubishi Taiwan Asia market is reporting 1Q 2006.
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Samsung is also releasing its LED based projector called Pocket Imager (model SP-P300MK), due to be released next month (January 2006)
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The Toshiba LED powered micro projector is out in France and it is to be released in UK around Christmas (or early New Year).
Find below the hyperlinks for detail perusal:
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The images on this link are detailed however I believe the description in the article quoting 400 ANSI lumens is a mistake. Verify it with product release info from toshiba France website.
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Those interested in checking out the projected images by Mitsubishi LED projector (model PK10 or PT10) and by Toshiba LED projector (model FF1) follow the links below:

More detail review and images with battery of Mitsubishi Pocketprojector at:
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Click the last image in the gallery at the bottom of the page to see the projected image by Mitsubishi PK10
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The projected image by Toshiba FF1 is shown in the penultimate image on the link below. The attached battery is also visible.
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The important question is ANSI Lumen and LUX values. Samsung states 23 ANSI Lumens while Mitsubishi and Toshiba indicates 250 and 400 LUX respectively.

Using the formula described on the following hyperkink:
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My calculations for producing a projected image of 70cm(W) by 50cm(H), approximately 83cm(33inches) diagonal view:

Mitsubishi probably has 102 ANSI Lumens (calculated) and 250 LUX(stated) compared to Samsung having 23 ANSI Lumens(stated) and 55.9LUX(calculated). Whereas Toshiba’s LED projector is rated 400 LUX (stated) and 165 ANSI Lumens(calculated). I could have miscalculated, so verify with the formula! Please note that resolution 800 X 600 is 4:3 ratio or (1.34) therefore I choose screen size 70cmX50cm, ratio (1.4).

All three projectors have SVGA (800X600)native resolution. Weight wise Mitsubishi is the lightest 450 gm (without battery) and Samsung is the heaviest 660gm(perhaps without batter). The Toshiba is 556gm (without battery)

In my assessment Toshiba LED Projector is perhaps the best of the three. I have ordered mine.

01/07/06 + zzonbi

Yeah, would be nice if you could that.

Screens, being passive components, always reduce reflected light, but the so called gain ones directionalise it, so that in certain angular ranges it appears indeed brighter. Again, this shouldn't change even the lux specs, and even less the lumens, but you never know how they did it. Marketing is always very inventive with these issues (see the response time of LCDs, for example).

Talking of screens, I read about a black one from Sony. It is actually black for normal light, but white for the specific LEDs wavelengths. That gives excellent contrast even with chamber illumination. Quite cool, don't know of prices though.

01/07/06 + garylm

Here's a poorly focused photo of the Toshiba's projected image:

Toshiba Projected

The demo area was shaded by a tarp, but there was still plenty of ambient light. I could have taken notes or read a book comfortably in that lighting condition.

The projectors were mounted at a 45-degree angle, shining upward onto 25-inch diagonal, white posterboard screens. The screens were angled downward.

The source for the Samsung was a video camera, which in those darkened conditions did not provide a very bright source image.

The Mitsubishi image also was not worth photographing. We didn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out what was wrong with it.

The demo area was not manned by any reps, and only one other attendee was showing any interest. He was the one who had actually talked to someone at Mitsubishi about the 100 lumen future. The rep. in the Toshiba booth didn't know anything about the projector other than it being on display at the TI booth.

From what I saw, the Toshiba was the only satisfactory display. Personally, I'd hold out for a little more brightness.

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01/08/06 + AI

garylm,

You are a star!, thanks a lot for your valuable input. Your finding confirms my opening post comment in detail about the three LED projectors.

In the interim I managed to see a camcorder recording of the Toshiba booth in IFA 2005.
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Slide through the video more than halfway through (I guess after 60% of video clip) you will see the projector and its projected image, showing “Ice Age” movie.

Your observation of 25” diagonal cardboard screen and presence of ambient light in the environment are similar remarks one can deduce by looking at the pictures at the newlaunches website:
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At least I am convinced that I am not purchasing a gimmick or a toy. Hopefully it will serve the purpose I am intending to use.

Based on this, at the moment my conclusion is:

1- These projectors are not for conference presentation . Their operational working and use is completely different than conventional xenon lamp projectors, so a comparison would be unjustified and misleading.
2- garylm’s initial quote, “ Toshiba was about half an inch thicker than the other two but was also noticeably the brightest.” is a good testimony.
3- I feel in a dark office, it will easily serve as a decent portable, instantaneous, noiseless projection display .

garylm , may I request an uncompressed file or original file of the image you have posted of the projected image. You can email me at abuamina AT NOSPAM gmail.com

Now at this stage I would be keen to determine the gain of the cardboard screen supplied by Toshiba with the projector. Screen with gain upto 5 are available on the market and as zzonbi has rightly pointed out, Sony has produced a black screen with sensitivity for specific wavelengths.

Waiting for the delivery of my order which is not expected soon because this week holiday season has just ended and Toshiba UK is still not very updated.

01/08/06 + zzonbi

AI, notice a subtlety in garylm's final paragraph. Maybe you should wait a couple of weeks more until someone does a real lumen measurement of the 3.
Good luck whatever the choice is, and do no forget to report back

01/10/06 + AI

Here is the official Toshiba lumen value from Toshiba New Zealand website:
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It is mentioned 15 which is close to what we calculated on this forum.

Derived from various relevant sources, the three LED projectors have following lumen values:

Mitsubishi 11 lumens
Toshiba 15 lumens
Samsung 23 lumens

Clearly Samsung is 1/3 more brighter than Toshiba in terms of Lumen values. Combined with a high gain screen how would Samsung perform.? So far I have not seen any projected image by Samsung LED projector.

I am beginning to like Samsung’s deign without the battery and of course higher lumen is definitely better than the other two. However should I worry about lower contrast i.e. Samsung 1000:1 compared to Toshiba's 1500:1

There is the price to be considered as well.

Objective suggestions are most welcome.

01/10/06 + garylm

To quote myself: "The source for the Samsung was a video camera, which in those darkened conditions did not provide a very bright source image."

Knowing that the Samsung should have been the brightest, at least on paper, I'm thinking how unfair it was to have those three projectors together at the TI booth but not give them all decent source material and proper attention to setup. The Toshiba rep who directed me had clearly visited the TI booth. Perhaps the Samsung and Mitsubishi people were negligent.

Something to think about when somebody else is showing your product. Come to think of it, I saw the same problem occur at the Transmeta booth a couple of years ago: there were several ultraportables on display, but some, like the MCC weren't even working.

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01/11/06 + AI

Addendum:

The Samsung Germany website is reporting 25 ANSI lumens:
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01/11/06 + AI

garylm,

I have some lingering questions:

Recalling your memory, can you please describe what kind of picture Samsung projector was displaying through the camera source? May the picture was not bright in its colour tone? Please comment.

Doesn’t contrast play an important role in image brightness? Could it be the case that Toshiba’s contrast is higher than Samsung that it was looking better?

Is there a difference in reporting lumens and ANSI lumen values.

The fact that three LED projectors were side by side at TI booth is perhaps good for comparison. It is a shame that all three were not running the same source of video input to standardize other parameters.

The cinenow video seems quite convincing. Did you manage to view that?
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Slide through the video more than halfway through (I guess after 65% of video clip) you will see the projector and its projected image, showing “Ice Age” movie.

I am really in a fix at the moment.

01/11/06 + AI

Something about ANSI lumens:
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01/11/06 + AI

Article on Contrast
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01/11/06 + garylm

AI said: "...what kind of picture Samsung projector was displaying through the camera source..."

The display area was under some sort of tarp to block out the overhead light. The Toshiba and Mitsubishi projectors were toward the open end of the tarp, where there was more light. The Samsung was back in the corner, where it was darker. There were a few camcorders on stands back in that same corner. One of the camcorders was feeding video into the Samsung. The on-camera monitor on the camcorder was open, displaying the same image that was being projected by the Samsung. The projected Samsung image was not any darker than that of the on-camera monitor. We tried re-aiming the camcorder to get a brighter source, but the whole area was fairly dark.

By the way, there were several flat-panel LCD displays backlit by LEDs on display at the show. The flatpanel LCD people claim that LEDs give more uniform illumination, and I think that would be especially true with a projector, where you're going from a point-source bulb to an array of LEDs. I don't know if any manufacturer has considered this yet, but with an array of LEDs you can also vary the color temperature a bit. The LEDs in the array don't all have to be the same color; if the overall light source measures a bit toward the cool side, you can warm it up by adding some red and green LEDs to the array. (we talked to a guy showing LED desk lamps, and that's exactly what they do to get closer to a daylight color of lamp). Also, with LEDs they could modulate the light source along with the image element to enhance dynamic range. There's a lot that can be done with LEDs as a light source for projectors, and I think they haven't even cracked the surface.

Personally, I'm converted to LCOS as a display technology. I'm a home theater enthusiast and have an old CRT projector as well as a DLP projector, but I've been looking for something better. The latest issue of Widescreen Review magazine did a comparison test of the various display technologies in their January issue, and for the first time, CRT technology was surpassed by another technology, that being LCOS. It's got brightness, contrast ratio, and freedom from artifacts. I know that doesn't help much for travelling presentations, but maybe they'll come up with a portable LCOS projector for businesspeople.

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01/12/06 + AI

Looks like in future Viewsonic will be releasing their LED projector
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01/12/06 + AI

garylm,

At last found the Projected Images by Samsung. Have a good look at the images below and please try to give a comment coupled with your experience ay CES2006. They are from the following website:
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Projected Image1

Projected Image2

Projected Image3

They certainly look poor and fainted in comparison to Toshiba, what do you think?

01/12/06 + garylm

The photographer had his flash on. You can see it reflected in the 3rd photo. Even without the flash there may be an issue with low contrast.

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01/12/06 + AI

You mean the low contrast of the Samsung projector or the low contrast of these projected images?