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My Encounter w/the DualCor CEO at CES
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thread starter

I decided that this should probably get its own thread. It's quite long, but I hope worth the read. Just treat it like a poorly written/edited article by some nobody.

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PREFACE

So, as I mentioned on another thread I had the amazing opportunity to meet Steven Hanley, President and CEO of DualCor today at CES. Even cooler, I got a chance to hold the CPC in my own mitts!

I wasn't sure where to put this since it could go on any of the various CPC threads or on the CES one. I guess if somebody in admin. wants to move it somewhere else they shall.

I'm afraid this is going to be pretty long, but I want to give you as much information as I can about this serendipitous encounter. I mean, the timing is amazing since we were just ranting about this product earlier today and most people felt like DualCor wouldn’t show up at CES. Anyway, PLEASE READ/SKIM through the whole thing because I think you'll find the information, at least some of it, interesting. As you can see, I tried to add some headings to make it easier to follow or skip.

MEETING STEVE HANLEY

As I was leaving the South Hall of exhibits at around 3 o'clock (Vega$ time) today, I came upon the C|Net booth and was shocked to see that the next presentation was going to be about DualCor. So I grabbed a seat in the nearly empty pavilion/show area and waited. As it turns out, they were recording their “first look” at the DualCor which you can now find here link . As you'll note by the editor's opening PSP joke, I'm not the only one who sees a fat PSP when I look at this thing.

So, when the review is over and the camera goes off, I'm watching the editor, Tom Merritt, like a hawk to see where he goes with that cPC when he's done. As I'm looking around I see a guy in a white button-down shirt that has DualCor embroidered on it. I also noticed that he has a cPC in his hand, so I walk up and ask him coyly, "Are you with DualCor?” He says, "Yeah, I'm Steven Hanley, the President and CEO." I'm thinking to myself, holy snikeys! I'm feeling like just like Cartman in the South Park movie (“Yes, I saw the Terrence and Philip movie-- who wants to touch me?”)

DISCUSSION ABOUT THE OQO AND cPC

I was so intently focused on how I was going to get my hands on that cPC, that I didn't realize that I had my OQO in one hand when I was shaking Mr. Hanley's hand with the other. He noticed though! Unlike the guy who asked me if my OQO was a telephone, Mr. Hanley immediately knew what it was and he said to me, and I quote, "Oh, you've got a toy there.” I laughed and told him that that was funny because we were just having this discussion on handtops.com this morning.

Surprisingly, he seemed to be familiar with the site and some of the criticisms that were on the board. "They just don't know enough about the product yet," he said. I laid out some of the specific questions/criticisms for him including; isn't it just vaporware, does it have Bluetooth, will it come with a keyboard, etc. [I certainly did not mention that I thought it was “fugly.”] But, before he answered those, or any, questions he had a specific agenda item that he wanted to address. He was accompanied by a woman by the date of Elizabeth Dumm who is an account director with a company called Brodeur. I'm not sure of what their relationship is and did not ask, they may have something to do with distribution. I suppose anyone who's interested can google it. Anyhow, he called her over and also called over the CNet editor, Tom, to take a look at my OQO.

Specifically, he wanted to point out how much brighter the screen on his cPC was when compared side-by-side to the OQO. No joke, it seems almost twice as bright. This was magnified by the fact that I had my 01+ on a lower brightness setting to try and conserve battery life. When I brightened it, it was like taking the lampshade off of a 10 watt bulb, it just wasn't impressive. “It's not even close, like night and day,” said Mr. Hanley. He was very satisfied with this demonstration.

They actually had to cPC's on hand. Mr. Hanley had one, and Tom used a different one for the review. After getting back the demonstration cPC from the CNet editor, Mr. Hanley (who I shall now refer to as Steve, since we're old friends by now), placed one in my hands. As he did he said, “this one has been on all day so it's a little warm.” I can tell you that he must've been being facetious, because it was lukewarm. I mean, my OQO is only that cool when it’s turned off. Also, I must say, it really doesn't look ‘as fugly’ in person as it does in the pictures. It looks just like a super fat PSP.

There is one thing that just can’t be denied though, IT IS HEAVY. I either made a face, or said something out loud like “boy this thing is solid,” because Steve said, “yeah, it weighs 1 pound.” So, there's one for you folks straight from the horse’s mouth, it weighs 1 pound. That's a pretty hefty handheld device.

PERSONAL DEMONSTRATION

He then recaptured the unit to show me some pretty cool stuff. One thing you can't see in any of the pictures, but should see in the video that I linked above is that the power button emits a cobalt blue glow. I don't know if that's cool or not, I suppose some folks will like it and others will not.

Steve then personally demonstrated much of what you saw in the video for me. He clicked on the ying-yang icon switching back and forth from Windows to Windows Mobile a couple times. I can tell you that switching back and forth was pretty much instantaneous.

He then did some doodling showing off the tablet functions. He also showed me that he can do all that stuff with a fingertip. As he did, he commented on how he thought the timing of OQO coming out with a tablet PC version was, in his words, “interesting.” He clearly has his eye on OQO and is watching every move they make. As you would expect.

I let him know that I wasn't happy about this option not being available to me since I had just purchased my 01+. His reply was something to the effect of…well I guess that's good customer service these days.

PROCESSOR/SPEED

Steve then proceeded with the demonstration. He really wanted to show me that is a VIA C7-M processor was superior. He chose to demonstrate this by opening a PowerPoint presentation which he told me had over a thousand slides in it. It basically popped up instantly. He then clicked on something that brought up a pop-up which had radio buttons to select a processor speed. As he did, he explain to me that the unit was only operating at that point at 400 MHz, but that it could be scaled up using this screen to as high as 1.5 GHz. I saw the screen and radio buttons, so it’s true as far as I know. I'm sure some of you more technical guys will get out there and start dissecting this information.

After that, we chatted a little bit more and I was surprised at how much awareness he had of the various criticisms that had been hurled his direction. He specifically commented about people complaining about the renderings seen on his site and elsewhere and citing them as proof that the product was only vaporware. I mean, with as much information as he had about what's going on on this and other sites is not unreasonable to suspect that he might be posting here or there himself.

He also noted that their web site had just recently been updated and a lot of the questions people had should now be answered. Finally, he told me that there was going to be a BIG ANNOUNCEMENT on his web site in March. He didn't provide any other detail, but I have to assume this is more than the release since he must know that I would be aware of that basic information.

Anyways, after that he gave me his business card and a strange double-sided laminated card which I believe is supposed to be a life-sized representation of the cPC. I will scan and post it here when I have a chance so that you guys can see it. It has some specs listed on it and basically has a picture of rendered face of the CPC on both sides one side highlighting Windows functions and the other side highlighting Windows Mobile. The card looks like a prototype for something that might be using future marketing campaigns.

So there you have it; no press pass, no secret handshake, I just happened to be in the right place at the right time to due to sheer happenstance and dumb luck, I managed to get my hands on the cPC and meet the CEO of DualCor too.


YOUR QUESTIONS:

Here are the questions that I can answer based on my encounter:

1) Wi-Fi?

Yes.

2) BT?

Yes.

3) GPRS? EDGE? EDVO?

3G.

4) a. How do you attach a BT Keyboard to this thing when you're in an airplane at 38,000 ft?

I think that's rhetorical and anyway I can’t answer it.

b. Will I have to bring and use my own USB keyboard?

I asked if it will ship with a keyboard and Steve said yes. I was not quick enough on my feet to think to ask him what kind.

Our whole encounter lasted about 15 minutes, so cut me some slack!

WHAT I’VE LEARNED/DECIDED

I think that the cPC is going to be very interesting. Unfortunately, it weighs a full pound and is about the size of a brick. I just don't think it's very portable. And I absolutely could not see myself carrying it around to use as either a phone or a handtop. Ultimately, I think my snap judgment was dead on. It's specs are pretty awesome. But I think you’d have to be pretty dorky to carry this around.

I really liked Mr. Hanley though. I'm guessing he's about mid-40s to early 50s. Personable and passionate about his creation. I hope it does well.
 
Replies

And again, as far as looks are concerned, Martha Stewart won't be declaring *either* computer a "Good Thing" any time soon...to me, the cPC, while ugly, is more attractive than the oQo, which, as an *ugly tin box* looks to me like a cheap cigar box holder...
 

rcurrier i have used a bluetooth internet connection before. And yes the fact that i coudl use the internet essentially anywhere was enough for me. I suppose on a larger scale its not as practical. But wether I wait 10 seconds for a page to load or 5 doesn't matter to me. Besides cell phones don't have high bandwidth to begin with, so either way wether you have the phone in the device or use a bluetooth connection, your not going to be surfing like at home. Plain and simple.

Now about your justification for WM5, this is strictly why i wouldn't want it. Yes with the WM5 option you can use the device longer. But that means you have to be using WM5 more. Which if I was inclined to do, I would just stick with my current ppc. Xp is so much more useful than WM5. When i buy a device that can run a full version of XP, that is what i want to use, not so lamed down version for a PDA.

Also as stated above, the CM-7 does use less juice but only on a powersaving option. It is fact that the TM5800 and the CM-7 running at full speed will yeild the TM5800 as the true endurance champ.

endurance and amount actually done are two very compeling topics though.

To end this, i just want to indicate that i am not against the cPC, I am for anythign that pushes the industry to continue to make better devices.

However I just see the cPC as a bit redundant. The whole dual core thing is purely a marketing strategy, for DualCor to get its foot on the playground that Oqo so largely dominates at the moment.

While the cPC is technically better is it necessary? That is my argument.

And about rolls looking better than porsche. I would never be caught dead in a rolls. THat thing is like a couch with wheels.

 

Can someone answer this?

What are the ACTUAL download speeds of the various 3G networks available in the US? In other words, when there's a heavy load on the system, does it buckle? (i.e. The difference between one person using a T1 line and 2000 people sharing a T1 line). I honestly don't know.
 

Although it varies quite a bit depending on a number of factors, including how close you are physically to the nearest tower, Sprint and Verizon, on the EVDO standard, advertises (and delivers) average 400 to 700 kbps and Cingular's newly launched HSDPA (in only about 15 cities but expected to ramp up quickly this year nationwide) boasts approximately the same speeds.

Some people claim that HSDPA has much lower latency than EVDO.

AND unless Sprint & Verizon become *extremely persuasive* in the global marketplace, only Cingular's HSDPA is on the global GSM standard that Europe and Asia uses. I don't see how Sprint and Verizon makes the switch over to GSM as I don't even know or think that that is possible on the EVDO/CDMA path on which they find themselves.

On that basis, I've always thought for well over a year now that eventually I'll end up at Cingular if Sprint/Verizon doesn't somehow get on the world standard or get the world to change to their standard (latter seems very unlikely to me).
 

rcurrier, you have read my previous post right? I mean i clearly indicate that the CM-7 is the better chip. Clearly. I was simply stating that endurance is only goes so far. To some how much you get done in a shorter amount of tiem might be mroe useful (ie the CM-7 running XP at full power). I simply was sayign if you were runnign both machines at full juice (both using XP), the TM would win in endurance.

That is all.

I am aware of transmetals dilema, but their chip fullfills its purpose in Oqo's device.

I was saying with WM5 that I don't think its all that useful ,next to a complete version of XP. Of course I don't need to really keep track of dates and numbers. I need to code and compile, adn for that XP is ideal. So to me, WM5 is a complete waste, unless I was developing for the WM5 market, in which case the Cpc is a dream come true.

BTW the Oqo can use usb modems as well. There are even phones now that support a usb connection.

Also how long do you think its goign to take before Oqo switches to the VIA.

I'm not arguing over the processors, im argueing over design and my personal needs.

That being said the cPC looks very promising, and i hope its success will fuel Oqo to be more competive.

Fingers crossed.
 

the C7-M is a lot more modern then the transmeta, so it will be faster. Besides there wouldn't have been any decent Via chips around when OQO started designing their computer.

The Transmeta is able to get more work done on an equal amount of battery capacity then the Via. That race was run a while ago, not sure who would win now...

I would like to know what processor will be in the 02
 

rcurrier,
I must be missing something. Maybe you can clarify something for me. (This is an honest question...no sarcasm). You state in your previous post quote:

Sprint and Verizon, on the EVDO standard, advertises (and delivers) average 400 to 700 kbps and Cingular's newly launched HSDPA (in only about 15 cities but expected to ramp up quickly this year nationwide) boasts approximately the same speeds

But according to PCWorld, BT can transfer data at ~700kbps

link

It seems to me that the "bottleneck" is on the 3G side and not the Bluetooth side. If this is the case, why doesn't a BT enabled cell phone (with a 3G connection) paired with a BT laptop/cPC/OQO/Handtop/PPC/Palm thingy work just as good? I mean if your downloading a file to an external USB 2.0 harddrive from your desktop PC but your downloading the file through your 56 kbps modem, isn't the "bottleneck" (i.e the 56 kbps modem) your "Achilles heal"?

Dazed and confused,
Weatheryoko
 

*Weatheryoko*, I'm using EVDO regularly via both Bluetooth and USB and I can assure you that it's rare to get more than 400 kbps (at least in the Bay Area)! And from what I've read online this appears to be true for people using EVDO via PC-cards as well... Then again, EVDO is 2.5G, not 3G. Bluetooth is not the bottleneck for 2.5G - and with v2.0 (EDR), Bluetooth will not be the bottleneck for 3G, either.
tnkgrl: Is EVDO what Verizon markets as "Wireless Broadband"?
 

rcurrier said: " I owned one of the largest software companies in the world in my particular niche in the 90s"


Wow, wow...then what is all of the deliberation for. Surely you must be doing fine with money...just go out and and actually buy an OQO Model 01+...cPC...whatever...whatever...anything/everything and decide which one you like better for your use...and then just toss the others way in a drawer...sell them...or whatever. Real world, personal experience plays much better for most, than relying solely on a reviewer and/or critic.

Geesh.
 

tnkgrl,
Thanks for the reply.

rcurrier,
Based on your previous post, I'm obviously not as smart as you but I went ahead and did some "real world" test. I found something rather interesting. I have an imate JasJar which has BT 1.2 (I believe; Please God, don't strike me down if I'm lying.). First I did a bandwidth test on my home PC (DSL connection) using Speakeasy.net. I was getting +1,000 kbps. So I figured this wasn't going to be a "bottleneck". Next I connected my imate JasJar to my home PC (XP Pro; AMD 64 X2 4800; 4 GB RAM and a DSL connection) via BT. My home computer has an old TDK BT PCMCIA card (I know that's version 1.1). From my JasJar (i.e. my handheld PocketPC), I opened Pocket Internet Explorer. I ran the same bandwidth test (download and upload). I was getting >500 kbps. Not the >700kbps as advertised, but I wasn't expected it.

Now I went to work (where my OQO resides on my desk). I then connected my JasJar to my OQO and did the same test. This time I only got 200-275 kbps (about half of what I got at home, but someone should check my math).

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that maybe its more related to hardware + engineering + operator error (Not just the blanket statement "BT 1.1 is the problem"). Personally, I don't have much faith in most techs (3rd level wizard or higher) so I guess I'm cynical. Maybe the combo you were trying wasn't optimized and had a lot of overhead, resulting in slower network speeds. As far as I'm concerned, there are too many variables. A great example is my DSL connection. I pay for 384kbps but I always have >1,000kbps.

I realize that this is the "reverse problem". Ideally I would have an EDVO phone and make that the internet gateway (and then run these tests from my home computer and my OQO). Anyone what to loan me theirs? Or would care to connect their handtop (not just the OQO) to their EDVO enabled phone and do a similar test. I'd be curious to hear the results.
 

Weather, you partially confirmed what I wrote previously. You got the same massive massive speed degradation that everybody reports when trying to pipe evdo over (at least to the Sony U750P, in my case, and the oQo in your case). The strange thing is that it didn't happen on your desktop PC, however. That is interesting.

You really need to *absolutely confirm* the version of Bluetooth your cellphone and desktop PC is using. All we know is that oQo is *not* version 2.

?
 

Here's what I've decided to do. I'm going to set a deadline and then compile the list of questions which I will send to Mr. Hanley. To wit, I would like to have all proposed questions for the CEO posted here by 5:00pm PST tomorrow. Then I will compile them and post my proposed question list by 10:00 am PST Thursday morning. I want to send the final list of questions to Steve by 3:00pm on Thursday. OK?

Thanks to those who've already submitted their questions.

I also meant to share with you folks what is printed on the back of Steve's business card.

"Delivering the Holy Grail of Enterprise Mobility: 100% replication of the fully functional, fully connected, non-diluted, intra-enterprise desktop experience in a completely mobile hand-held device" [sic.]
 

*mikecane*, EVDO is marketed by Verizon under differnt names, including "Broadband Access" (data plans for select PC-cards/PDAs/smarphones targeting mobile professionals) and "V-cast" (a video streaming ad-on to voice plans for select phones targeting the young/hip customers)... You're not supposed to according to the service contract, but it's possible to use V-cast with some phones (like my Motorola E815) as a flat-rate unlimited data plan for "hugh-speed" Internet access from a computer via Bluetooth/USB.

*rcurrier*, I'm getting about 300-400 kbps with EVDO (in the Bay Area) no matter what device I connect/pair (USB/BT) my Motorola E815 to - I've tried my Nokia 770 (BT v1.2), OQO Model 01+ (MS BT stack + BT v1.1), 2 desktop PCa (both with Cambridge Silicon BT radio + MS BT stack), my Averatec AV1050 (hacked Broadcom BT radio + MS BT stack in XP, Apple stack in OSX for Intel), Mac mini (guessing BT v1.2), iMac G5 (BT v2.0 EDR). I've peaked at 500 kbps+ a few times, but maybe my phone can't do EDVO any faster?

rcurrier, I'm getting about 300-400 kbps with EVDO (in the Bay Area) no matter what device I connect/pair (USB/BT) my Motorola E815 to - I've tried my Nokia 770 (BT v1.2), OQO Model 01+ (MS BT stack + BT v1.1), 2 desktop PCa (both with Cambridge Silicon BT radio + MS BT stack), my Averatec AV1050 (hacked Broadcom BT radio + MS BT stack in XP, Apple stack in OSX for Intel), Mac mini (guessing BT v1.2), iMac G5 (BT v2.0 EDR). I've peaked at 500 kbps+ a few times, but maybe my phone can't do EDVO any faster?

>>>But the question is, tnkgrl, are you getting *massive speed degradation* in the bluetooth *transfer* regardless of speed? In other words, do a speed test on the cell phone. Then pipe it over to whatever computing device via bluetooth. Then do a speed test on the computing device (I use toast.net for speed tests but some say there are better speed test sites).

I experience massive speed degradation on the Sony U750P. Weather experiences it on the oQo (but not his desktop). What say you?
 

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